Understanding the Seven Seals

[The Wicker Man]

REVELATION
5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

In the vision the scroll is transparent. John could see it written on the inside and on the backside. It is also then possible that the seals are internal. Besides if the seals were all on the outside then none of the scroll could be read until all seven seals were broken. Therefore the seals are internal except for the outermost one of course.

A scroll can be written section by section in chronological order and sealed as it is written in which case that which happens first is unsealed last. Or a scroll can be rerolled the opposite way and the seals could be placed at that time. We cannot just assume which of those two applies to the seven seals. We must look for clues and let the Bible tell us which way the scroll was rolled and sealed.

In the 5th seal God is waiting for the number of the martyred saints to be complete before he dispenses judgement to those remaining on the earth. Then everything is made new and death is done away with. In the 7th seal God pleads with the wicked but not until God's people receive his mark of protection. So if the number of God's people is complete in the 5th seal and they have all received new white robes (immortal bodies) and can never be harmed again then why would they need protecting in the 7th seal? The 7th seal cannot possibly be after the 5th seal.

There are two periods of great tribulation. There is the tribulation of those days because of what is coming upon the earth and there is the tribulation of Jacob's trouble. The 7th seal is tribulation upon the wicked. God's people are marked and protected and therefore it is not the tribulation of Jacob's trouble. The 5th seal is the tribulation of Jacob's trouble. Now we will see that Jesus himself gives the proper order of the seals.

MATTHEW
24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days(<-7th seal) (6th seal ->)shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

And the 7th seal itself gives the proper order.

REVELATION
10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

Heaven and earth have run out of time. They are rolled up like a scroll in the 6th seal. If the 6th seal was before the 7th seal then the 7th seal would not be possible.

REVELATION
6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

But to understand the full meaning we must follow the hyperlink, "as a scroll when it is rolled together".

ISAIAH
34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

All this proves that the order that the seals are opened is opposite to the order that they will occur. Therefore the correct order of the seven seals is 7 -> 1. The 4th seal and 5th seal overlap because the 4th seal is the Antichrist kingdom under which the 5th seal saints are martyred. Things become bad in the 3rd seal because after 7 years of plenty there will be 7 years of famine. The war of Armageddon breaks out in the 2nd seal and Christ returns riding a white horse in the 1st seal.

But now I'm going to complicate things. There is a secondary prophecy contained within the seven seals of only the four horsemen. And that secondary prophecy does run 1 -> 4. I'm not going to explain it. I'm just going to show it.

FIRST HORSEMAN

DANIEL
2:37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
2:38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

REVELATION
6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

SECOND HORSEMAN

DANIEL
2:39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, ...

REVELATION
6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

THIRD HORSEMAN

DANIEL
2:39 ... and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

REVELATION
6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

FOURTH HORSEMAN

DANIEL
2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

REVELATION
6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Therefore the true order of the seven seals is 7, 6, (1, 2, 3, 4), (5, 4), 3, 2, 1.

[Jim]

I see that you quoted me in another thread. Welcome.

The answer you give in this case does not appear to be believed by the LDS church. But then, you seem to offer deeper answers in other areas as well.

This forum started out kind of strong and then a large percentage of people left to do their own site and so it has kind of been limping along for over a year. It is good to see your posts that explain things deeper than most of us have ever seen before. Hopefully, some of the people investigating these things will find your posts in search results and join us as well.

[Fred Flintstone]

REVELATION
5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

In the vision the scroll is transparent. John could see it written on the inside and on the backside. It is also then possible that the seals are internal. Besides if the seals were all on the outside then none of the scroll could be read until all seven seals were broken. Therefore the seals are internal except for the outermost one of course.

A scroll can be written section by section in chronological order and sealed as it is written in which case that which happens first is unsealed last. Or a scroll can be rerolled the opposite way and the seals could be placed at that time. We cannot just assume which of those two applies to the seven seals. We must look for clues and let the Bible tell us which way the scroll was rolled and sealed.

In the 5th seal God is waiting for the number of the martyred saints to be complete before he dispenses judgement to those remaining on the earth. Then everything is made new and death is done away with. In the 7th seal God pleads with the wicked but not until God's people receive his mark of protection. So if the number of God's people is complete in the 5th seal and they have all received new white robes (immortal bodies) and can never be harmed again then why would they need protecting in the 7th seal? The 7th seal cannot possibly be after the 5th seal.

There are two periods of great tribulation. There is the tribulation of those days because of what is coming upon the earth and there is the tribulation of Jacob's trouble. The 7th seal is tribulation upon the wicked. God's people are marked and protected and therefore it is not the tribulation of Jacob's trouble. The 5th seal is the tribulation of Jacob's trouble. Now we will see that Jesus himself gives the proper order of the seals.

MATTHEW
24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days(<-7th seal) (6th seal ->)shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

And the 7th seal itself gives the proper order.

REVELATION
10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

Heaven and earth have run out of time. They are rolled up like a scroll in the 6th seal. If the 6th seal was before the 7th seal then the 7th seal would not be possible.

REVELATION
6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

But to understand the full meaning we must follow the hyperlink, "as a scroll when it is rolled together".

ISAIAH
34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

All this proves that the order that the seals are opened is opposite to the order that they will occur. Therefore the correct order of the seven seals is 7 -> 1. The 4th seal and 5th seal overlap because the 4th seal is the Antichrist kingdom under which the 5th seal saints are martyred. Things become bad in the 3rd seal because after 7 years of plenty there will be 7 years of famine. The war of Armageddon breaks out in the 2nd seal and Christ returns riding a white horse in the 1st seal.

But now I'm going to complicate things. There is a secondary prophecy contained within the seven seals of only the four horsemen. And that secondary prophecy does run 1 -> 4. I'm not going to explain it. I'm just going to show it.

FIRST HORSEMAN

DANIEL
2:37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
2:38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

REVELATION
6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

SECOND HORSEMAN

DANIEL
2:39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, ...

REVELATION
6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

THIRD HORSEMAN

DANIEL
2:39 ... and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

REVELATION
6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

FOURTH HORSEMAN

DANIEL
2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

REVELATION
6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Therefore the true order of the seven seals is 7, 6, (1, 2, 3, 4), (5, 4), 3, 2, 1.

The seven seals are of major importance, particularly in our day. I, like most people assumed that the seals would be opened in order. After believing something for over 60 years, I have to consider that while the possibility certainly exists that I was wrong the whole time, it is also possible that I was not. So seeing how you laid out the details to substantiate your view, I decided to do an Internet search to discover how many, if any, shared your view.

First, I just searched on "Understanding the seven Seals." It is too early for this thread to show in search results, and even if it did, the results would be deep, due to the current low traffic. It did not appear to me that the people pretending to explain the seven seals, actually understand them. So I went to LDS.org to see what the church claiming to be God's very mouth piece had to say.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/sea ... rue&page=1

I already know that the LDS leadership are wrong about many things. They may as well have stated that the LDS Church worships satan and intends to help satan overthrow the Almighty God's plan of Salvation, as to say the covid clot shot is a godsend. So I have less and less interest in anything they may have to say as time goes on.

This is a big deal. A very big deal. Claiming to be God's only mouth piece should suggest that they have at least a basic understanding of the scriptures and that when in doubt, they simply ask God, who supposedly converses with them from time to time. This does not appear to be the case. So I would invite anyone, LDS or not, to offer as complete of a presentation on the matter as you have.

I am going to email a few people and invite them to comment on the matter. This will increase traffic and bring additional opinions into play. You will be able to respond, as well. I do not do this to create an argument, but rather to allow people more knowledgeable than me to make presentations from which truth can be discerned.

I had hoped that interest would be higher than it is, but the time has been short.

I do not expect that all men can comprehend the mysteries of God. I do however, believe that God made the scriptures discernable by man, or else what was the point? Some men are teachers and some are students. We should all be students of Christ, even the teachers. If the LDS Church is not, then the reason for a falling away is self explanatory.

[The Wicker Man]

I see that you quoted me in another thread. Welcome.

The answer you give in this case does not appear to be believed by the LDS church. But then, you seem to offer deeper answers in other areas as well.

This forum started out kind of strong and then a large percentage of people left to do their own site and so it has kind of been limping along for over a year. It is good to see your posts that explain things deeper than most of us have ever seen before. Hopefully, some of the people investigating these things will find your posts in search results and join us as well.

Unfortunately if it attracts anyone it will attract more attackers than open minded truth seekers.

Everything that I have learned and teach and I really do mean everything is contrary to what the LDS church teaches. So there will be plenty to attack.

[Jim]

I see that you quoted me in another thread. Welcome.

The answer you give in this case does not appear to be believed by the LDS church. But then, you seem to offer deeper answers in other areas as well.

This forum started out kind of strong and then a large percentage of people left to do their own site and so it has kind of been limping along for over a year. It is good to see your posts that explain things deeper than most of us have ever seen before. Hopefully, some of the people investigating these things will find your posts in search results and join us as well.

Unfortunately if it attracts anyone it will attract more attackers than open minded truth seekers.

Everything that I have learned and teach and I really do mean everything is contrary to what the LDS church teaches. So there will be plenty to attack.

I do not consider that a bad thing. Also this forum in not really about LDS or church, anyway.

Our country has went to shit. The LDS has also. The people around here are more of In God We Trust and in getting our freedom back.

[Edgar Summer]

This thread has made me begin my own investigation into the 7 seals. I don't have anything to report other than gladness for the input that made it happen. I hope others may seek better understanding, also.

[The Wicker Man]

There is one more tiny piece of evidence I forgot to mention. Christ is The King of Kings and Neb is a king of kings. And in my presentation Christ is the rider on the white horse for the primary prophecy and for the secondary prophecy it is Neb that is the rider on the white horse. Is that just a coincidence?